{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/rj48p5xg5s/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Jalil Muntaqim: “They changed the environment, but the war continued.”"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/778/original/Untitled_design.png?1768849407","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Duration"]},"value":{"en":["02:30:44"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["Grassroots Thinking"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCopyright © Community Movement Builders\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Muntaqim, Jalil (Interviewee)","Rollins, Dartricia (Interviewer)","Veal, Erica (Editor)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2025-06-12 (created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English (primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Audio"]}},{"label":{"en":["Holding Repository"]},"value":{"en":["Community Movement Builders"]}},{"label":{"en":["Genre"]},"value":{"en":["Oral history interviews"]}}],"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCopyright \u0026copy; Community Movement Builders\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Grassroots Thinking"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Grassroots Thinking"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/778/original/Untitled_design.png?1768849407","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/295/993/small/2.jpg?1768947347","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 2 - Jalil Muntaqim Part One.wav"]},"duration":5634.87499,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/295/993/small/2.jpg?1768947347","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-grassrootsthinking.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/295/993/original/Jalil%20Muntaqim%20Part%20One.wav?1761334716","type":"Audio","format":"audio/wav","duration":5634.87499,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Jalil Muntaqim - Part One [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim Part One - Oral History","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=0.0,1.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nAlright. My name is Dartricia Rollins, and I'm interviewing Jalil Muntaqim for an oral history project on behalf of Community Movement Builders, a member based collective of Black people creating sustainable, self-determining communities through cooperative economic advancement and collective community organizing. Today is Thursday, June 12th, 2025, and we are conducting this oral history in Jalil's office in Rochester, New York. The purpose of this oral history collection is to document and preserve the life histories of veteran members of the Black Panther Party and Black Liberation Army. By sharing about their lives and experiences in political organizing, narrators will contribute to a collective memory and reflect on the similarities and differences in the landscape today and how they have remained committed to the movement work over decades.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=1.0,49.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nWith that, Jalil, can you please introduce yourself by saying your name, age, and any work that you're currently involved in?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=49.0,57.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nFirst of all, let me thank you, Dartricia, for having the opportunity to share. Right. Aspects of my life and my story. I am Jalil Muntaqim. I'm a veteran member of Black Panther Party, Black Liberation Army. I am 73 years old, right. I was born and raised in Oakland, California, in 1951. October 18th, 195,1 at 3:43 am, in the morning, Kaiser Permanente Hospital. I was raised in a family of activists, particularly my mom, raised at the feet of my mom, and that's where my activism actually began. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=57.0,106.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nYeah. So first, could you tell me who would you like to dedicate your oral history to?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=106.0,113.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nOh, dedicate oral history to my daughter, Antoinette, and also to my wife, Valerie.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=113.0,119.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nBeautiful. Tell me about them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=119.0,123.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nOkay, give me an ask, give me a question about them that you would like to know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=123.0,126.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nOkay, um, what is it that you would like Antoinette to know about you from recording this oral history?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=126.0,134.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nHmm, wow. Now that's a very, very poignant question, right there, and the reason why is because I did 49 plus years in prison, I went to prison when I was 19 years old. I didn't come out till I was 68, and as a result of that, my daughter at the time of my capture, October, excuse me, August 28th, 1971, was in the womb. Right, for 50 years, she and I had not been on the streets together, not being close in that capacity, because of my incarceration. At the age 16, she started getting into trouble, and I had her-- because she was born in California--was living in California at the time, but I was doing time in New York, and I asked her mother to permit me to have her for the summer, and she came for the summer. I had some friends take care of her during the summer, and so they used to bring her up to visit me and things of that nature, like Yuri Kochiyama, Asha Bandele, Naomi Burns, activist in our community who support me right, support political prisoners, and they used to bring up, bring her up for me, and we began to bond. It really established a real close relationship. But at the same time, there was things going on that I did not know about. For example, at the time, she was visiting me at age 16, she was pregnant, and she didn't tell me, right. She didn't know how I would respond, and she always wanted me to be proud of her, right. And so we find that for many of us, and I'm talking about Black Panther Party, BLA, who did time, right, there's an estrangement between the parent and the child, right. Because of the distance, because of the separation, right. And so we are now in the process of trying to reestablish our relationship, try to build that bond, to build some understanding between father and daughter. And I must admit, it was not easy, right. Because of the estrangement, because she didn't know who I was. She had expectations of what I would be when I came home, right. And I don't think I fulfilled those expectations, because I had my own goals and objectives that I want to achieve upon my release from prison, from the penal slave system. And so that's important for us to understand that sometimes our perspectives it's different based upon our social environment and how we've been conditioned in life circumstances. So my hopes are-- is that this interview will shed even more understanding of me, who I am, and that's something that she would be willing to not only preserve, but to share with my granddaughter and my great-grandchildren as well, the legacy of struggle.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=134.0,298.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nThank you. That was beautiful. Okay, so I'm gonna take us back to your birth, yeah, and your mom? Could you tell me about your mom?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=298.0,307.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nYeah, my mom [Billie Jo Bottom-Brown] was a giant, right. And I make-- I say that on the basis of this, she was a student of African dance as a young woman, right. And her teacher, or her instructor of African dance, told her you're African, right. Remember that, right. You're not a negro, you're not a coon, you're not the N word, you're not any other inflammatory, derogatory name that had been imposed upon African people of African descent, people in diaspora, okay. And so that's what she taught my sister and I, right, we're Africans, okay. And don't let nobody call you a negro, a colored person, the N word or any other name other than being African. So I was raised with that perspective. I was raised with that understanding with that identity of who I am. Okay, on the basis of what my mom brought to our attention, brought to our attention, and how she managed our relationship to the social environment. She's also an active member of the NAACP [National Association for the Advancement of Colored People], right. So as a young child, she used to take us out on these marches, Civil Rights marches. I'm not saying that I understood all what's going on at that time, right at 9, 10, 11 years old, but she used to take us out, right, and try to explain to us why, right, why we had to fight back. And so, given that reality, right-- and my mother has always been the first right. She was the first Black woman who was hired in as as a teller in Bank of America in San Francisco, right. I think Bank of America, Wells, Fargo, one of them, right. She's the first in a couple of other positions that she held, right. The first Black woman to get in those positions. And so she aspired to share that with her children, so they'd be, will be inspired, right, to perform, or at least, you know, have that kind of ambition to want to be greater than what white folks, like the system has said we are right, to prove our worth as an African person, okay. Have value as an African person, right. And these are the lessons we were taught. In my house at home, as in my teens, right. We used to have pictures of Eldridge Cleaver, Malcolm X, Martin Luther King [Jr.], Stokely Carmichael, Rap Brown on the walls in our family room, okay. So we had that kind of identity, that association, right, of who these individuals were in growing up, right. So that was important for us in terms of our identity and understanding our place in the social order from which we're we reside, which we lived in, okay. But yeah, so that's where, that's where it began. That's my mom's-- she's passed about three years ago. She fought for my release every day I was inside. Never gave up, right. Was right here in Rochester, where I now reside. When I was released, I came and stayed [for a] time. Matter of fact, I got my first home. All right, she got me a home. Right, got out, got me home, got me a car. [pauses: takes a deep breath and clears throat]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=307.0,540.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nTake your time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=540.0,544.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nYeah, she was my rock [expressed with a shaky voice and with emotion]. Now we fought all right. We had disagreements. Okay, you know, but she was my rock, okay. She held me down so and she's missed every day.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=544.0,564.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nYeah, I feel it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=564.0,569.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim \n\nIt's real.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=569.0,569.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins \n\nShe sounds amazing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=569.0,570.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nYou know, I did, because she was opposed to me becoming part of the Black, Black Panther Party at the age of, what, 15, 16, that I joined the party. She said, No, you can't be part of that. I did it anyway, of course. And then she (unclear) comes to evolve and grow to a point where she says, I give birth to Panthers. I'm a mother of Panthers. Okay, so. [low sniffle]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=570.0,600.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nYeah. What's your favorite childhood memory?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=600.0,610.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nMy favorite childhood memory?!","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=610.0,611.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins \n\nOr one that comes to mind today at this moment?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=611.0,613.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\n[Laughter] That's funny, there are too many. How do I separate one--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=613.0,621.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nOr not even just one? Tell me any that you would like to share with me right now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=621.0,628.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nI mean, I can share, I mean, my first kiss, right with a young lady that I was-- admired and that we are-- my prom, senior, junior prom. I didn't go to senior prom. I got kicked out of high school or quit. Whichever one is preferable [laughter].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=628.0,654.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=654.0,654.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Had my first car, alright. I mean there's so many different memories, the birth of my child, right. Yeah, yeah. Getting married in the last year, right and we have our first anniversary next month. So those are memories you know that are, are, you know, going to prison [laughter], getting captured. You know what I mean what that, what that amounted to, and what that brought into into play in my life. So there's not a single memory, right, that is far and beyond any other that I can separate from the collective of my life experiences. So, but naturally, you know, the passing of my mom was devastating, okay, I still feel it to this day, you know. I's been a couple of years, several years now. Yeah, yeah. I can't pinpoint a single one.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=654.0,718.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nThat's okay. Yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm curious to know-- I want to know about what you were like as a child [laughter]. Actually, I will let that be the question.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=718.0,735.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nRambunctious, [laughter]. Rambunctious. Rambunctious. That's what I was. I can remember a time when-- because she had bought me a tricycle, when I was very young, three or four years old, and she used to just tell me, just ride the tricycle in front of the house. Soon as I got on that trike, I was gone. I was gone. I was around the corner, down the street, talking to people, you know what I mean, just gone, and she would come get me, spank my butt all the way home, right. And the next day, you know where I was at?! Back on my tricycle, gone again [laughter]. So that's one of the things. Yeah, I got, I got some spankings. So I was a rambunctious child. She took us to-- she enrolled us in Catholic school. I was baptized Catholic, you know, back in whenever. I went to Catholic school, I stayed at Catholic school about five, five years. They didn't let me come back after the, for the sixth year. And rightly so, because I didn't believe in nothing they was talking about, you know, and, and, you know, I was just rebellious against these, these, these white people's tales, their their, their fantasies and their, you know, their myths. You know, it didn't hold true to me. Remember, now I'm African, right? I'm thinking like an African. Okay, so these white folks and what they talking about, you know, all that I can see is their devastation, destruction, and their harm that they caused to Black people, to African people, right. So anything else outside of that seems to be a lie, okay. Cause, my reality shows something different.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=735.0,841.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim\n\nBut, and then at 16, right, during the Black Panther Party, right, I started the first BSU [Black Student Union] in my high school. [There] wasn't a BSU in my high school, so I started the first BSU--Black Student Union in my high school, and was engaged in struggle during that period of time. Also, as a youth, we had a doo wop group. You know, I used to sing on the corners. Right, I'm a doo wop. I actually used to have a voice once upon a time. Matter of fact, our singing group, my brothers in the singing group, we used to call ourselves the Chants, C, H, A, N, T, S, the Chants. And we came in second place in the all-teenage, all-citywide, teenage talent show, right. That's how good we were. Matter of fact, we tried to get recorded. So at some point in time, I might have been a musician instead of a revolutionary. I might have been an artist, instead of a revolutionary, you know, but that didn't, that fell through, you know, because of things that we were doing that were supposed to not be doing. So it broke up our group. But then the members, some of the members of the group, became Panthers, right. And so that led me to become-- following my comrades, my brothers, right. Our gang members, our singing members, right. I followed them into the Party at the age of 16 [clears throat], yeah. And of course, during the riots in '64 and '65, San Francisco, I was involved with that, out there in the streets, with the young people, with that. And I was about 13, 14, at the time, 13 and involved with that, you know, so I had a full youth, right. My mom's moved us out of the ghettos into the suburbs, right into the burbs, and then from the burbs went to a bigger burb, bigger house, right. Because she and my stepfather, the man that she married, was, you know, aspiring middle-class goals and objectives and security for their children, for us, right. I think that's, you know, there's, there's, I don't know how much deeper I can go into that, but that was my childhood for the most part.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=841.0,987.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins \n\nYeah. I mean, you can go as deep as you would like.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=987.0,990.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nYeah, well, okay, I appreciate it. We'll probably get to more points. I might backtrack, get some more stuff up in dealing with childhood stuff.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=990.0,996.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nYeah. What kind of stuff were y'all doing in high school with your Black Student Union?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=996.0,1004.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nBlack Student Union? Oh, no, we had Black study classes. We had classes, we had associations. I mean, like what we call sock hops, you know, we just put up parties and dances and stuff like that for the school. Also, at age 15, my mom's bought me my first Conga Drums for my birthday, my 15th birthday. She said, Here, it's a conga drum. I was surprised. I wasn't expecting it. That was one of the best presents I received, right for Christmas, birthdays, whatever was the conga drums, and we also had a group. This is in San Jose. This is not San Francisco. This is San Jose. When I moved out to San Jose and also had a group, we called ourselves the Afro Brotherhood. It was a Conga group, drums, drum group called Afro Brotherhood. And so at that point in time, at that time 15, I was a member of the house of Umoja, a cultural nationalist group that was associated with Ron Karenga, the US organization, right. And so we're basically at that point in time, we're at the age of 15, 14, 15, 16, I would consider myself a cultural nationalist, right, until I started reading about the Black Panther Party, and learning more about Black Panther Party, and I see the difference between cultural nationalism and revolutionary nationalism, right. And I made the transition from a cultural nationalist to a revolutionary nationalist in joining the Black Panther Party. So yeah, at 15, I received my first conga drums, conga drum. I was in a group, a conga group, at that time, and yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=1004.0,1104.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins \n\nYeah, what kind of stuff are y'all studying in your Black Student Union?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=1104.0,1111.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nOh, studying Malcolm, studying Malcolm, studying Martin, studying the histories right from Nat Turner to Denmark Vesey to Gabriel Prosser, right. Who are these people? We had to learn-- we learned who they were at an early age, right. Harriet Tubman, the various struggles and rebellions that was going on in this country during that period of time. But also, you know, at the time, we also basically lower middle class, working family, right. There was also aspiring, you know, to be a success. Whatever you might interpret that to be, right in the social order in society. So even in school, I was very good in school, right. In high school, I got high school scholar-- in elementary school, I got a summer scholarship for high school studies, right. And then in high school, I got a scholarship for college studies. I went to San Jose State University for a summer doing, studying chemistry, okay, and-- no, in engineering. Matter of fact, it was engineering because I thought every time I wanted to be an architect, because I like building things, right. So now building movements, not building houses, okay, or buildings, okay, but I'm still a builder, so we're building, right. And like you, like the organization that you work, work for, this is for, right. Community Builders Movement (sic), right. So we have to build, and so that was part of my studying, right, growing up in school and of course, we had fights. We had gang fights. You know, Blacks against the Mexicans, Mexicans against the whites. You know, all those kinds of dynamics that goes on in certain areas of-- in high school.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=1111.0,1349.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim\n\nBut yeah, and eventually I got kicked out of the house, you know, for being, being disobedient, okay. And so at the age of 16, 16 and a half, 17, I was on my own, alright. I was out doing my thing, right, getting an apartment. First, first I was couch surfing from place to place, sleeping in my car, right. And then eventually I moved back to San Francisco and was staying with my cousin, my cousin Jackie, and got a job, became a social worker, right at the age of 18, right. A social worker for human resources, right, which is an employment office. Now I was getting people going out, getting people jobs. I had my own, I had my own, what I call clientele, okay, that I had to look after, and that involved-- and ultimately, by, like I said, on August 28, 1971 a week after the assassination of Comrade George Jackson, I was captured in attempt to retaliate against his assassination, and unfortunately, we had technical problems. Our machine gun jammed, and the result of the machine gun jam was a shootout, car chase, and eventually captured, right. Comrade George was murdered on August 21st, 1971. The following weekend, we was out to take a retaliation, and that was August 28th, 1971, right, the following Saturday. I believe it was Saturday, and at that point in time, I was captured, and I knew then, I was going to spend a wholeeee lot of time in prison. Okay. I was gone, right. And I told my daughter's mother, since I'm gone, right, go do what you got to do, take care of our kid, but always keep this in mind. I'm going to be a part of this child's life no matter where I'm at, right. I'm gonna be-- you gonna find out a way-- I'm gonna be part of this child's life no matter where, where I'm at. Okay, and I did everything I possibly can to be an influencer, right in my child's life, in the course of the 49 plus years that I did in prison. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=1349.0,1381.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\n I'm gonna take us back a little bit. Okay, you said for a little while you were a cultural nationalist.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=1381.0,1390.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nYeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=1390.0,1390.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins \n\nAnd then you started learning about revolution. What, what kind of sparked that switch? Like, you know, you're reading about the Black Panther Party, and--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=1390.0,1403.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim \n\nWhen they, when they had that demonstration in Sacramento challenging what is called the Mulford Act, okay. And when I saw them up there on TV challenging the Mulford Act with their weapons and their guns, I told my mom, right there, watching it on TV, Mom, I'm gonna be one of them. And she, no you ain't. I said, Yes, I am. I'm gonna be one of them. They fighting for our people, right. They fight for our people. That's what I told her, right. And so that was the inspiration that made me switch over, you know, and recognizing that these, these brothers and these sisters about taking care of some business. Ain't just no talk about the, you know, being African and culture and Swahili and wearing dashikis and bubas and, you know, the beads and all that. The accoutrements of being African, right. The customs of being African, but not actually the practice of freeing your people. Okay, now let me say freeing people on a very material level, right. Actually freeing people in terms of mentally, right, get them out of the colonized mentality, right, but coming out of colonized mentality and not establishing freedom, right, autonomy from the system of oppression, right, then it becomes farcical, you know. And so seeing that the Panthers, these young men and women, were dedicated to the struggle of our people. I knew then that I got to be one of those guys. They about business, you know, and me being a street urchin, you know, for a time, right, I'm about the business. So if they bout business, then that's who I'm supposed to be with. Okay, so, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=1403.0,1519.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins \n\nYeah. So what was your time like in the Panthers?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=1519.0,1524.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim \n\nIt was good. It was good. Yeah. I helped out on the breakfast programs. I helped out in selling the papers. Matter of fact, it was the papers that-- when I was out with my boys, who was had had then become members of the Panther Party, and we was moving papers out of the truck right and preparing them for distribution in Oakland, in the Bay Area. And I decided. Then I said, Yo, man, I'm going inside and sign in, right. I'm become part of it [inaudible]. No, I'm going in; at the time I wasn't called Jalil, you know. But they say, man, you know, just chill out with us. I said, Nope, I'm going in. So I signed up and became a Panther and start going to PE [Political Education] classes. And because you have to go to PE classes, okay, that's a must. Started going to PE classes. I worked in the health clinic, breakfast program, selling the papers, and security, right. I was a peripheral security when the Panthers brought Betty Shabazz to, to, to the Bay Area, right. I was on security charge for that. When Afeni Shakur came from New York to California, also did security for that, for the Panthers, right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=1524.0,1602.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim \n\nIn fact, at one point in time, I held Tupac Shakur in my arms, you know, when he was an infant, right, as we was moving Afeni into her apartment in Marin County. Those kind of experiences I had, you know, being, being with the Party. And then, naturally, at the time when I turned 18, from 16 to 18 to 18, to 18, I was recruited into the Black underground that had become known as the Black Liberation Army. Rule number six of the Black Panther Party was no Black Panther Party member can join an underground organization except for the Black Liberation Army. And what that meant for me, in understanding the advent of the Black Panther Party with Bobby and Huey was that they knew at some point in time we would have to engage in armed struggle. So within the principles of the Black Panther Party was established fact that Black Panther Party would be the, the creators, right of the Black Liberation Army. But now let's, let's also look at this, the Black Liberation Army is representative of not only that period in time, that epoch of resistance, but it's representative of all of our resistance, from the the time of Cinque in Amistad right, to the point of Harriet Tubman and Nat Turner and all of the hundreds of slave rebellions that occurred in this country that we don't know about in history. Matter of fact, they're trying to wipe us out of history today. So the Black Panther Party is representative of that resistance, that, that legacy, that history of resistance codified. Deacons for Defense was armed right. Robert Williams wrote the book Negros with Guns, right, before he went into exile, okay, fighting against the Klan. So for the Black Panther Party to come in at that point that it did, seems to me, was natural, a natural occurrence or phenomenon, right in the history of Black resistance in this country.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=1602.0,1722.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=1722.0,1722.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What was., what was happening like outside of the Party? Like, what were the conditions like, where it was apparent that the Black Liberation Army needed to happen, and it [laughter]? I mean, it's a question because--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=1722.0,1744.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nSame, same conditions they have today.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=1744.0,1746.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins \n\nYeah, because y'all understood yourselves at war.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=1746.0,1749.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nAbsolutely.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=1749.0,1751.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nI don't think we necessarily have that same understanding today.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=1751.0,1753.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nAbsolutely not. We do not. And the reason why. Well, I think it's evolving now as as a result of this fascist government that we have today, this dictatorship, the orange dictator, that it's come to a point now where we came to realize that this system des not work in the best benefit for Black people, brown people, and Indigenous people in this country. So that's becoming a new reality now, how do we fight back? That's the issue that we have to address, and we can get to that later on in this interview. But back then, we got to remember, there were riots going on across this country, right, from-- in response to the state sanctioned violence against us, the police killing of our people, right, and we responded to that. The Civil Rights Movement. The members of the Black Panther Party evolved out of the Civil Rights Movement, right. So you had a Civil Rights Movement that evolved, grew, matured and become the Black Liberation Movement, okay. And also the New Afrikan Independence Movement in 1968. And so, we find that the transition is subject to social conditions okay, and the social conditions back then are equal to and today is worse than back then, because back then we-- at least had communities, right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=1753.0,1841.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim \n\nOur communities has been devastated, right. The family has been devastated, destroyed in many instances, and so-- and then, you know, we had COINTELPRO, or Counter Intelligence Program, the FBI Counter Intelligence Program that destroyed the Party. And then at the, at the end of destroying the Party, what they do? They filled and saturated our community with drugs, right to prevent the rise of another militant movement, as COINTELPRO sought to prevent in the first place, right conscious-- sought to prevent in the first place. So we've had-- and so that's what they did. They devastated our community with the selling of drugs, by creating a snitch program. The whole idea of the culture of drugs, gangs became the, the psychological warfare right that they imposed upon us through the various forms of media, including radio, TV, movies, Blaxploitation movies and etc, right. They came in existence at the, due to the demise of the Black Panther Party, and so that created a whole new cultural landscape, right. A labyrinth of capitalism, or Black capitalism, that was also being promoted under the Nixon administration during that period of time. So all that led to the, to diminishing our militant resistance, okay. Now there's been peaks, flows, peaks and ebbs right, or ebbs and flows right in terms of our struggle. For instance, what happened to [George] Floyd, okay. And the rising up, what happened to Trayvon Martin and the rising up. What happened to Michael Brown and the rising up and Breonna Taylor, Breonna Taylor and etc, right. So we had these instances of resistance, but not a movement, right. And that's what's necessary today.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=1841.0,1971.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nWe have to build a movement of resistance, and not episodes of resistance, okay. You know, so that's, that is, I think that is a major differences from then to now. But keep in mind that we've always resisted, okay. Back then it was organized, all right. You had the Black Panther Party. You had the Republic of New Afrika. You had on other side, you had the Brown Berets, you had the Young Lords. You had the SDS [Students for Democratic Society] and the Weather Underground, the Patriot Party [Young Patriots]. You had various other organizations, American Indian Movement. We had various other organizations that were militant and engaged in the struggle for their community and for their people, which we was associated with and collaborated with in some of that  work, that does not exist today. Okay, or hopefully it's starting to rebuild as we move forward and in response to what we're now confronting with this overt white supremacy and fascist dictatorship that this country is now confronted with.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=1971.0,2047.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=2047.0,2047.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So you joined the Black Liberation Army?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=2047.0,2050.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nI was recruited in the Black Liberation Army at age 18. Yeah. And, I'll tell you one story. There's a book I can't remember... by Donald Cox, right. Let me, let me see if I can find let me see if I can find it. Because this, this-- what I want to share with you is the [searches phone]. Let me find this book. Field Marshal Donald Cox. All right. Here it is. All right. It's called \"Just Another Nigger.\" I don't know why he used that name, but \"Just Another Nigger: My Life in the Black Panther Party,\" right by Donald Cox, right. And in that, in that book, he talks about him taking a particular action, right. And as he took the action, he's coming back to the car, and somebody pulled him into the car so we can make our getaway, right. That person that pulled him into the car, that was me. That was me, right. And that was my first action. They decided that they're going to make some action for whatever reason. They said they needed one more person, right, to be part of the crew. And so my comrades, who were Black Panther Party members, who turned who were part of The Chants, our singing group, would had then become Black Panther Party members, they said, \"Hey, we need you to come with us.\" *unclear* \"What y'all talking about?\" Well, they knew I was a fighter. You know, they knew I was about getting busy, right. So, what else I'm gonna do? I gotta show up, and so that's what I did. So I showed up, and I thatwas my first, first foray, right, into the work of the Black underground. The name Black Liberation Army didn't become prominent or become known publicly until the incident of May 19, May, May 21, 1971 where Dhoruba bin Wahad was arrested for May 19th event where two police officers were shot in front of DA's [district attorney's] office, and then two nights later on, May 21st two police officer was murdered or killed in the Harlem Projects, Colonial Harlem Projects, two police officers killed, and that's what I was arrested for, right, eventually convicted and did the majority of my time right for that incident. And at that time, a communique was released announcing the Black Liberation Army of having committed this particular acts of retaliation-- acts of retaliation against some young people being murdered by police. Alright, they killing our children, killing our babies. And so we decided we was going to retaliate as a result of this police sanctioned violence against Black, brown, and Indigenous people in this country, and that's what the, the work of the Black Liberation Army, for the most part, was protecting the Party and protecting our political platform and programs, and building, building out our revolution, building up our movement, right, and to let the state know, if you come after us, we're coming back, right. There's gonna be bleeding on both sides of this, this game, right. And if we got to send our mothers, mothers to the funeral home and to the into the burial ground, and y'all gonna be going to burial ground and funeral homes as well. Okay. And statistically, if you, if you do the study, right prior to the advent of the Black Liberation Army, BPP, it was an all time high of state sanctioned violence and murdering of Black people right [coughs]. Excuse me. During the course of the Black Panther Party, Black Liberation Army, the killing of Black people decreased, decreased. Because they knew there might be a possibility that there would be retaliation for their vicious murdering of our people. Alright, after the event, after the destruction of the Black Panther Party and the BLA, the killing of our people increased, right, with impunity, because they didn't feel it was it'd be any retaliation. Alright. So that is the the upside right of the Black underground, what we call the Black Liberation Army. But yeah, so that, yeah, that's it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=2050.0,2333.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nYeah. I mean, you carried on that militancy, though, even after you were captured. I mean, you've stayed committed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=2333.0,2344.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim \n\nYeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=2344.0,2344.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nThroughout time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=2344.0,2345.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim\n\nOh, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=2345.0,2346.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins \n\nOkay, so--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=2346.0,2346.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nThey changed the terrain, but they ain't changed the fight.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=2346.0,2348.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nThat's right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=2348.0,2350.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nOkay. So they changed, they changed the terrain. I knew that I was going to prison. So going to prison, I become, then a political prisoner, a prisoner of war, right. They changed the territory, right. They changed the environment, but the war continued. So while I was in prison, I continued to organize, right. Organized the first national newspaper, prisoners newspaper called \"Arm the Spirit\" while I was inside. And the story from that is that originally was a like a newsletter of essays and stories. It was written by those of us who was in the adjustment center at the time, San Quentin Adjustment Center at the time, or San Quentin Six right and Geronimo [Platt] and Russell Little from the SLA (Symbionese Liberation Army). We're all in there together. Ruchelle Magee. Matter of fact, I was locked-- when I was in the insane Adjustment Center, no justice center in San Quentin, I was locked between Ruchelle Magee and Charlie Manson, okay. And had San Quentin Six down, down the tier, and had Geronimo and Russell upstairs on the second floor, right. We was rocking the AC, Adjustment Center at that time. And so, we used to write letters, essays, and send them to the streets, to the support group of San Quentin Six and Geronimo and SLA, and then they would make copies of our essays and distribute them into the progressive community. And it became so popular, right, that people was looking for our stories and our essays on a monthly level. So then I decided, well, listen, if it's like that, it must be, people must be interested in what's going on inside these prisons.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=2350.0,2452.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim\n\nAnd so I made a call and started getting essays and stories from across the country, and we turned it into a new, actual newspaper that we called \"Arm the Spirit,\" right. The first revolutionary newspaper developed by prisoners for prisoners across this country. I also initiated the first petition to the United Nations from prisoners. Right that was recorded by the United Nations, recorded. Our actual petition was recorded. I had an attorney named Catherine Burke who had worked with Amnesty International. She was introduced to me. She came to visit me while in San Quentin, I told her what I wanted to do. She said, Well, listen, we have resources, and I'll help you out in making this happen. And so we filed the first petition to the United Nations dealing with the issues of political prisoners and also the conditions inside the prison system, right, the penal slave system in the United States. And it's recorded. It was recorded. I have the recording in my book, right the number of the recording of that petition. Started the first march was one of the first marches in Washington D.C., called the Jericho March, right. That originally evolved from the Republic of New Afrika. Republic of New Afrika used to have marches around the White House right, calling for the release political prisoners, they called it Jericho March. And back in 1986 they stopped doing it. And-- '86 or '96. 96! They stopped doing it right, and I didn't understand why. And I called my, my beloved sister, Safiya Bukhari, Asha Bukhari. Safiya Asha Bukhari, and my dear brother, Herman Ferguson, right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=2452.0,2563.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim\n\nThe story about Herman Ferguson is this. Herman Ferguson was the first Secretary of OAAU [Organization of Afro-American Unity], working with, El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz, Malcolm X, right. He became a COINTELPRO victim, Herman did, Herman Ferguson. COINTELPRO victim, accused of attempting, accusing of planning to assassinate Roy Wilkinson, who was the head of NAACP and Andrew, not Andrew Young, Whitney Young, who was the leader of the Urban League at the time. Okay, these bourgeois Negroes, leaders, right. And we learned about him being targeted by COINTELPRO. He escaped, left the country, went to Guyana, became a colonel in the Guyana army, came back to the United States, did time for absconding, I think he did about five years in Attica, came out, got back involved in the movement again, right. He was a leader of, like I said, OAAU and also RAM, Revolutionary Action Movement during the period. He was also a school teacher, that was his profession. He was a school teacher, I think, in Brooklyn. Brooklyn, or Queens, okay. And also a revolutionary. So I called, he and Safiya came to see me. I said, \"Listen, we got to restart this Jericho Movement. We can't let that go away.\" And they say, \"Okay, well, we'll work on this Jalil, but we ain't gon get it done at the time that you want it done.\" Alright. So that was in '96 and so in 1998 was the first march we had, the first march, Jericho March to Washington, D.,C. right. 6,000 activists from across the country went to that march and demonstration. And then, as a result of that, we built what we call the National Jericho Movement. So I was the co-founder, the three of us are co-founders of National Jericho Movement. I am now the only living co-founder of National Jericho Movement. It's been existing going on 25 years, building in support for the realease of our political prisoners and prisoners of war across the board, right. It's the premier national organization in support of political prisoners in this country.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=2563.0,2706.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nYeah, one of which I'm a part of. So I know you've written about, talked about your time as a prisoner of war. And I'm curious. I mean, you've led a lot of campaigns. I'm curious about also, like, what kind of tactics you used inside to organize other people who are locked down?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=2706.0,2736.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nOkay. When I had the opportunity to do so, I teach, right. So I established, I said I established Black Student Union when I was in high school, so inside prison, I established the Black student study groups, right. So we had study classes. We had classes in Black Studies, right. I was also Muslim, so I used to teach in Islam and Muslims. At one point time, I came to Imam as one of the, one of the prisons. I can't remember which one it was, right. I came to, I think it was Attica. The first time I came an Imam, but more often than not, either worked in, as security, but it was wazir [inaudible] security, or I was a naib, second in command for the Muslim community. So that, in itself, gave me some degree of prestige within the prison population. Naturally, my history of being a prisoner, being a political prisoner, veteran member of my Black Panterh, Black Liberation Army, gave me some degree of prestige within the prison population, but I used to always-- I refused to work in industry. I refused to work in the mess hall, you know, where they could exploit my labor. So either I worked in the school right, as TA, teacher assistants, right. Or I worked in the yard right, where I can get my exercise on and stay healthy. Or I worked in the, in the housing block, where I had access to my cell anytime I need to get to the cell, do what I need to do, right? I refuse to work in the industries and these other-- because I knew they were exploitative right. Now, I know that prison was a slave system, right. And I figured that if I'm going to do time, then I'm gone do time the way I want to do it, right to the best interest for myself and for the work that I was doing at that time. So teaching was one of the ways which I was able to associate right with the prison population. Okay. I taught poetry classes. I taught sociology classes, and I taught Black history classes while I was in prison. The last time I taught Black history was in the Attica. And I started in 1861 talking about the Emancipation Proclamation, and I brought it all the way up to 1966 with the advent of the Black Panther Party. You can't talk about 1966 without talking about the Black Panther Party, because when Black Panther Party came into existence, October 1966, right. When I started talking about the Black Panther Party, you know what they did? They shut the program down and put me in isolation for four months, put me in the box for four months, saying that I was teaching these guys to become militants. They're absolutely correct. Exactly what I was doing. I was teaching these guys to become revolutionary, to become Muslims. I mean, become militants, right. In some instances, Muslims. And the reason why, because they want to keep these these are the guys that had in the class.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=2736.0,2917.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nI had Gangster Disciples at the Bloods, at the Crips, had Ñetas, right, in my class. Gangs, gangsters, or less, believed to be, you know, pseudo gangsters, okay, but that's who I had in the class. Uneducated, unpolished, you know, unsophisticated. You know, boys from the hood. All right. Oh yes, I was teaching them, okay. They would come to my class. They was eager to come to my class [inaudible] fact that information-- and the way that I discussed the issues with them, right, and raising their concerns and giving them homework, and you better bring that back next week. Okay. Or you gone have problems with me, okay. And they bring their homework back, and we talk about it, etc, okay. And then naturally, you know, being in the yard and exercising, jogging and so forth. I'm hanging out with the guys, you know. But, yeah, they put me in the box for four months for teaching the class. The court overruled them, overruled the disciplinary right, and said, man, in fact, the court, they stated in their, in their decision, he's actually teaching a real class, you know. They recognized he's actually teaching a real class, you know. So that was my relationships with the with the prison system. I organized strikes. I organized demonstrations. We organized sit down strikes in the yard when they were beating guys up, we sit down and we ain't going back inside, we sitting out here in the yard, right. Yep, they came got me, put me in a box, transfered me to different prisons. Organized hunger strikes while I was inside. One was successful in Green Haven. They put it all in the newspapers. \"BLA member takes over prison.\" Yeah. Told them we was gone take over the prison. You know, once again, they come snatching me up and send me, send me to another institution. You know, where the guys is waiting for me to come. Hey, Jalil is coming. Okay, all right, cool. But yeah, so it was those kind of experiences that I had in prison that gave me some degrees of influence, some degrees of prestige within the prison population, both in California as well as in New York State. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=2917.0,3061.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nCan you talk about becoming Muslim? What led you to?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=3061.0,3066.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nYeah, hmph. That's another interesting story. Back in December 1972, I was being transferred from San Quentin prison to New York to stand trial for the killing of the two police officers in Harlem on May 21st, 1971. And as a result of them transferring me, they put me in a place called Old Queens. It was the Old Queens detention center or jail, right. Not the new Queens prison, but the old Queens jail. And put me on the third floor. And on the third floor was only three of us up there, myself, H. Rap Brown, who we know as Jamil al-Amin right, and Max Sanford, who we know as Muhammad Ahmed, right. The three of us, as a matter of fact, we had one other guy up there who was a notorious bank robber, right. So it was the four of us on a tier, all by ourselves. We was in isolation, right. They kept us away from everybody else, right. And I used to watch Rap or Imam Jamil al-Amin and Max Sanford, Muhammad Ahmed make their prayers, right. And I used to ask him, What the hell y'all doing praying? We ain't supposed to be praying. We supposed to be fighting. We got to figure out a way how to get up out of here, right. Remember, now, I was what 20, 21, years old, and these guys, I considered to be the icons of the movement, right. They've engaged long, far longer than I have, older than me, of course, right. And, you know, they established, they had, you know, a record of this work, right. So me being a rambunctious, rambunctious upstart, you know, although I'll take care of business, right, but I'm still an upstart, right. Far as my concern, my, my feelings in terms of them, right. But I used to-- and argued with them for about six months.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=3066.0,3600.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=3600.0,6838.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim \n\nSix months, you know, because you just ain't gonna tell me anything make me accept it. No, uhh uhh. No, you gotta prove this to me. So for six months, you know, we argued about, you know, religion, you know. And then, so I took what we call the faustian compromise. Be damned if you do, be damned if you don't, kind of compromise, right. Where-- and I like I told you before, I was always good in school, and science was one of my favorite subjects. And one thing we know about science is physics. And we know in physics energy, we're told in physics, energy never dies. It transmutes and transforms, but energy never dies, right. So the faustian compromise came with this. Iman Jamil asked me, say, Listen, you're a good person. Say, yeah, man, you know, I'm a good person, you know, I'm about doing the right thing. He said, Well, if you good person and become Muslim, right. You don't lose nothing, right. If there's no afterlife, you don't lose nothing. You take care of your business. You become Muslims, right. You don't lose anything. But now, if there is an afterlife, okay, and you're not Muslims, you might lose it all, right. You won't get your agenda of, quote, unquote, Paradise, heaven, whatever you want to call it, right. You may not get there, okay. But if you're a good person, right, and you're Muslim, you have a greater opportunity. Okay, that's one, right. And then knowing that physics, energy never dies, I know it goes someplace. I don't know where it goes, right, but the whole question is, does consciousness also goes with this energy, when you leave this physical realm of existence? The physical, material realm existence. What is the spirit? What is the soul? Where does this energy? Where does it go? And do you take consciousness with you, right? That's a question that is unanswerable for me, right. But hedging my bets, right, I believe that you do right, because energy never dies, and energy in and of itself, in my understanding of physics has some degree of, I don't know if you can call it intelligence, right, but there's a chemical or biological-- I say not biological, but a chemical makeup of this energy that the atoms know where to go, how to fit in. You know, where it needs to fit in, you know, it's, you know, it's like everything on this planet, you know, we're all comprised of atoms, okay, molecular structure of atoms, from this chair to the clothes I got on to the skin on, that I have on my body, comprised of atoms. It is the composition of these atoms, right, that makes the difference, all right, how they're put together, Okay. And that's intelligence. That's some form of intelligence, some kind of-- form of they know that when we put these atoms together it's going to make a chair, right. Or it's going to make a cabinet, or whatever it's going, to it's going to do, whatever it's going to produce. And so, and then the second thing was this, unlike Christianity, where they tell you, if the enemy slap you in the side of face, to give him your cheek so he's slapping on the other side of the face, and I told him, say, you slapping my face we're fighting. Ain't no thing about me turning the other cheek. And the other thing is that Christianity teach you to love your enemy. I'm not loving my enemy. He's my enemy. Okay, so there's a hypocrisy within the Christianity, within the belief system of Christianity, that I was not going for, that you did not find in Islam. And Islam tells you right to fight against tulmult and oppression, wherever you may find it, that tulmult and oppression is worse than slaughter. That's the clincher for me. What? Fight tumult and oppression, wherever you may find it, yeah. Okay, I'm with that. Just like I seen the brothers going to Sacramento, right. And I read this in the Quran and said that we have an obligation, a command, to fight against tumult and oppression, yeah, that's with me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=6838.0,7116.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim \n\nOkay. And so at that point in time, I took my shahadah and became Muslim, right. Jamil al-Amin helped me get my name, set my name, he's Jamil. I'm Jalil, okay. And established that kind of rapport, kind of relationship that I had with Imam Jamil al-Amin, and he had, naturally, I had bayat to Imam, Jamil out of me, allegiance to Jamil al-Amin, as, as my Imam. But that's how, that's how I became Muslim. That's all. That's what's got it started, right. And although I don't proclaim to be a fundamentalist, right in that sense of the word, but I'm adherent to the core principles of the Islam, the belief system, and I try to do everything I possibly can to honor that right, particularly in the course of our struggle. All right, fight tumult and opprion wherever you may find it, tumult and oppression is worse than slaughter. Why is it worse than slaughter? Right. Because slaughter, you're dead, right. You're not suffering anymore. That's why. Okay. But for long as people are suffering, the Muslim is supposed to be out working to relieve their suffering and bring people closer to the divine. Right. And I'm not saying that everybody do it because they don't right, but that is one of the the phenomenons of this world that we live in. Okay, we have three major philosophies that's ruling or controlling, trying to control the planet, right. And those philosophies is capitalist/imperialism, right, socialism/communism, right, and Islam, right. And these are the three battles that are in control of the planet that's going on to this day, the three major ideologies, right that, that the world population is adherent to on one level or another. When I say capitalist/imperialism, I also include Christianity and Judaism, that's part of that philosophical understanding. Right, a worldview, right. Socialism/communism [inaudible] I associate that with atheism, right, non belief in the divine or the spirit and so forth. Very materialistic in many instances, right. And then you have the Islam. Right, in Islam is-- also has a socio-economic base for its existence right, to be part of the spiritual foundation of existence, okay. And it's more equitable. It's more just, just right, and it's adherent to that which is, for the most part, what we consider to be, to be as close as possibly to divine, to divinity, to the divine. It embraces both the spiritual and the material, right, in a holistic way, okay. And that's very important. Yeah, that's very important. So, so that's how, that's how I became Muslim, right. I identify myself as New Afrikan revolutionary, Muslim period. Put an explanation mark on that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=7116.0,7203.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nWell, that was gonna be my very next question, was about your political ideology and also how Islam has influenced that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=7203.0,7239.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nWell, one thing, one thing, that's important for us to understand in terms of our struggle overall, right. The majority of those who had led our movement, led our struggles, they believe in God, right. From the Reverend Nat Turner, to the great Marcus Garvey, right, to El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz, to Martin Luther King, and everyone and everyone in between, they believe in the divine. They believe in God, okay. And so for me to not think that there's some validity in that would be to deny a history of resistance and the history of these individuals who's willing to put their lives on the line for the better benefit of our people. Okay. So I'm not doing that. All right, but I'm coupling, coupling that with the ideology of resistance, okay. And so that's really again, you know, go back to that one quote out of the Quran, right, making that coupling and bringing those forces together, right, the material and the spiritual world. And so for me, in studying El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz, right, and then becoming part of the Black Panther Party, rejecting the notion of integration, right and the notion of peaceful resistance, right, rejecting that ultimately led me to an ideology or philosophy that supports the idea of fight back, right, of resistance. Okay, so that is my ideological basis that moved me into the direction. I remember I was in juvenile hall, right. Yeah, one time when I was out of the house and trying to make it on my own right as a young kid. There was a juvenile hall counselor gave me Malcolm X's book, yeah, gave me his autobiography. And I went into my room and I read it from cover to cover. I said, Yo, who is this guy? I also, I remember-- oh, no, not only that, but I tell you another story back in 1965 when El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz was assassinated, I was in junior high school, and a little white girl, we was changing classes something, going from class to class, changing classes. A little white girl ran up to me and grabbed me and hugged me. She was crying. She said, they killed him! They killed him! I said, who they killed? They said they killed Malcolm. I said, Who's Malcolm? She said, You don't know Malcolm. I said, No, I don't know Malcolm. Who's Malcolm? Right. So you know, she started explaining to me who Malcolm was and I said hmm. So I went home and asked my mom. I said, yo mom, said they killed Malcolm. X, who's Malcolm X? She said, you don't want to know nothing about him. She said pay your attention to Martin Luther King, right. That's our leader, right. And so that set the course for me. I tried to learn who Malcolm was, and then eventually, you know, I received his book and read his autobiography. Why this young girl knew about Malcolm? Because her parents were socialists, right. And Malcolm used to go to the socialist forum and make a presentation and make speeches and lectures at the socialist forum, right. So that's how she knew about Malcolm, right? And it brought that to my attention, and I tried to introduce my parents to her parents, so they'd have study groups together [laughter]. That didn't work, but I tried, you know, yeah. So that's how I first heard the name of Malcolm, right and led to my-- But I wanted to know more, wanted to learn more about this guy and why they murdered him, why they killed him. And then three years later, they killed Martin, El-Hajj Malik-- they killed Martin and by that time, I was all in there. I'm down, you know, I'm about the business now. Okay, yeah, yeah, I was what 17 when I killed Martin, yeah and had already been in two riots [laughter], hanging out in the streets with the brothers. Yeah [laughter], I was about the business, man. So, but yeah, that's, that was the strategies, that helped evolve my political ideology coming out of the cultural nationalist, revolutionary nationalist, Muslim, New Afrikan, revolutionary Muslim. Okay, and that's the evolutionary process.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=7239.0,7514.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nYeah. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna move us, because you, you answered so many of my questions, like all in through there. Can we go to-- there was always a campaign to free you, but we were not successful until 2020, so--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=7514.0,7541.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nThere's a story behind that, too, but we'll get--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=7541.0,7543.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nTell me the story that that's that's the question I'm getting to. Could you tell me the story behind that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=7543.0,7549.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nMy release?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=7549.0,7550.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nYour release.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=7550.0,7551.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nOkay, yeah, yeah. I've been to the parole board 13 times prior to my release, right. Denied each time for the 13th, the 14th time they granted my release. Why did they do that? Well, we continued to build a campaign for support of my release, of course, right. But prior to my release, COVID became an issue throughout the prison system, throughout the country, right. But more so in prison system, because the prison system didn't know how to handle it. They didn't know how to deal with COVID. And so what I did, I had my attorneys to write a habeas corpus petition, right to have me temporarily released until the Department of Corrections can decide how they going to handle COVID, right. And we showed the court, if they continue doing what they doing, I'm gonna have COVID, and I'm going to die right, inside prison and I didn't have a death sentence, all right. I had 25 life, but that didn't mean I had a death sentence. Okay, and the court heard my argument and agreed, and granted me temporary release. Okay, first time, and, and it was a couple of things happened in this state for me, was the first time, but, yeah, the court granted me temporary release. A habeas corpus grant, until, until Department of Corrections figured out their protocols in dealing with COVID, then I will come back. Okay, so as a result of that, Letitia James, who is now the attorney general, who has been, or was the attorney general, and still is, the attorney general of New York State, appealed the court's decision. Okay, so in the interim of appealing the court decision, I got COVID. I got it bad, right. I had to, they had to take me out to the hospital, had me in Albany Medical Center for five days on oxygen, and they shot me with every kind of drug you can imagine. My butt felt like a pin cushion when they got finished shooting me with all kinds of drugs to save my life, right. Because they didn't really know what they were doing at that time, it was early in the stages of COVID. So they gave me everything they can imagine, and it worked, right. And after the sixth day, they took me back to the prison, stayed in the prison hospital for another week, then they let me back in population. Now, when we get to the appellate court, because Letitia James appealed that decision, the court says, Listen, this case is new, right. Originally, it was for him to be released so he would not get COVID. He got COVID. So what's the issue now? Okay, it's a done deal. It's a boot. So they dismissed it, right. Five months later, went to the parole board and they said, Yo, we're gonna let you go. Okay. And so I think that was the reason why, because we already had a court ruling that I should be released. They reversed it, kept me in prison, go back to parole board. I think as a result of that, they decided, hey, you know, let this guy go. And so in 2020, October 6, 2020 I was released from prison, right. It'd be five years my release-- December 6, they released me, and it'll be five years this coming December, right, I have been out, I've been out of prison, but that led to my, to my release from prison, being paroled. So I'm trying to get off parole now, you know? And that's the problem, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=7551.0,7780.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nWhat'd it felt like coming home?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=7780.0,7784.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nWell, no, okay, what it felt like coming home? What [giggles]? How can you, how can you, after 49 something years inside of the penal slave system and coming to the streets, you know, being with your family, being with your mom's, being with my daughter, right. There's no greater feeling. This, you know this, I'm out! Matter of fact, I got a video-- my then fiance, who I really didn't we was gone get married, but she and my cousin Abbas, Abbas Muntaqim, he came to see me-- the first time we met, right. He came to see me. Now we're tight as brothers, right, blood brothers. He came to see me. So we was riding in the car, right. And my wife Val she started recording, right, me being home, and I got a little poem. Said, a little poem, I'm back. We got work to do, you know, but that's the kind of feeling I had. I know it's coming back and getting back involved and get back to the work. Okay. And I can tell you a story of Assata Shakur, which is something I hold [clears throat] dear to my heart from a lesson I received from Assata, right. We was having a meeting this was during the course of the trial, and we had a meeting our attorneys and her attorneys and lawyers and and us, we were all together, right for a conference and Assata raised the question to the five of us, because it used to be the New York Five before it came New York Three, right, raised the question, if they gave you a bowl of Nixon's shit or excrement, right, and gave you and told you, said, listen, eat this, this excrement, right, and we'll let you go, right. What will you do? Right. That's the question she asked us. There was five of us, right. And you rest assured, each and everyone was trying to figure out some to figure out some kind of way, how to make this thing happen without eating this excrement [laughter], this Nixon boo boo, right. We was trying to figure out all kinds of scenarios to make this thing happen without having to do that. So then we finally asked Assata, what would you do? She looked at us. She said, I'll tell em, give me a spoon. What? Yeah, I'd tell em, give me a spoon. Because it ain't about me. It's about how I get back to the work for our people. That shut us down, shut us down, and arrested me. We gotta get back out to the work, to our people. That's the goal. That's the objective. It ain't about my personal dignity. Right, my personal integrity. It's about to work, about the sacrifice. That's the lesson that Assata gave me. People say, Assata taught you. Well, this is what she taught me, right. It's about doing the work, okay. It ain't about you personally, right. It ain't about you, it's about our people, okay. Lesson learned. So that, yeah, so I can what was the question again?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=7784.0,8012.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nI don't even know [laughter]. Well, it was about, it was originally about, like, how you felt coming home.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=8012.0,8017.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nYeah, yeah, yeah. That's how I felt coming home. Getting back home, get back to work. Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=8017.0,8024.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nYeah, because you said earlier, like in like, my first question, you said you had a goal that you wanted to achieve. So my question is, what goal did you want to achieve upon returning home?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=8024.0,8035.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim \n\nReestablish my relationship with my daughter, with my family, right. Get some clarity and understanding with that right. Make sure that she understood and know that I love her to, from from day one, right. And never been the loss of love, although we've been separated for the 50 years of her life on the planet, that's one. Two-- let me just back up just one bit and say this. In 2018, right, I-- remember I told you that that they sent me to the box for teaching the class in Attica, right. So while I was in the box in Southport isolation, right, I wrote to my comrade Jihad [Abdulmumit], who is then and may soon transition out of the chairman of National Jericho Movement, right. Jihad Abdulmumit, who's also a veteran member of Black Panther Party and the Black Liberation Army, and also a, had been a political prisoner. So he came home, we got together, he became the chairman of National Jericho Movement. And, so I wrote him and said, listen, we need to bring the jurist back, right. I was still recovering from the COVID, right. I said, I gotta get out of here, man, I gotta get out right. Otherwise, imma die in prison. So I told him, I said, Listen, we got to bring international jurist back. We had brought them-- I had brought the international jurists back in 1981 when I did the UN campaign to the United Nations, the U.S. prisoners campaign to the United Nations, we brought the international jurist United States so they can interview people and find out whether or not political prisoners exist in United States. The United States has been, has always disregarded the reality of political prisoners, because for them to acknowledge political prisoners is to acknowledge that there's dissent in this country, right, and to acknowledge dissent in the country means that there's struggle, there's things going on that's not all peachy keen and hunky dory, okay. And so I asked him to bring back the international jurist. He agreed. He brought it to the attention of Sekou Odinga, our General right. Sekou Odinga, and then I also brought to the attention of a brother by the name of Mac Myers, right, who organized a group called Resistance in Brooklyn, right. And they decided, okay, we're going to bring them back, but we're gonna add another issue, we're not just the discussing political prisoners. We're gonna bring the issues of genocides, okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=8035.0,8212.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim \n\nAnd so we organized what we called the International Tribunal on Genocides, and that was in 2000, the tribunal was in 2021, okay. So I wrote the letter in 2018 he said, we will work on it and and then continue to work, you know, to get me out and and in 2021, we had the international jurist. It was held at the Malcolm X Betty Shabazz Education Research Center, or Education and Culture Center, right, and that used to be named the Audubon right, where Malcolm was, El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz was murdered, okay. That's where we held the international tribunal on October 25th, 2021 which I also was released, because I was released a year earlier, so I was able to testify at the International Tribunal. Thing about the international, we had the International Tribunal, we brought five charges. There was five charges of mass incarceration, health inequities, environmental racism, existence of political prisoners, state sanctioned violence against our people, the police killing of our people. Those are the five charges we brought the international esteemed by the International Jews found the United States guilty on all five charges, which turned amount to genocides. So we as a people are suffering genocides in this country. There's not the kind of genocides we find in Nuremberg that happened in Germany, right? Or what happened in Rwanda, where they're just wiping out people, what's going on in Gaza today, just wiping out people. Ours is a diminishing of our capacity to reproduce right, and therefore dwindling on our numbers. All right, making us less than who we are. And if you study the protocols of genocides, the 1948 protocols or convention on genocides, it explains in detail how United States is complicit in engaging in genocides. And in fact, 18 USC 1091 [18 U.S. Code § 1091] right. 18 USC 1091 is the United States treaty to the 1948 convention on genocides, right. And the language under the convention on genocide 1948 is very similar, or almost the same as the language in the United States federal code 18 USC, 1091, that, that's against genocide, the action practices, although the United States is invited to their own laws, okay? And so, as a result of that genocides convention, our capacity to raise these issues, we find ourselves in terms of these goals, right? My goal is to ensure that our people is aware of the reality that we are suffering conditions of genocides, right? And that we must remove ourselves from harm. So there's two things that's based upon that reality that, our goals.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=8212.0,8385.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim \n\nOne what we call building the People's Senate across the country, okay? And second of all is building what we call FROLINAN,  Front for the Liberation of New AfriKan nation. Those are my goals. You can read about the front in my book, \"We Are Our Own Liberators,\" okay? And people can get the book by going to www.BlackDragonmme.com right? That's www.BlackDragonmme.com. They can get a copy of my book \"We Are Our Own Liberators.\" And in the book it has chapters that deals with the national strategy of FROLINAN on and so that's what we are-- that's what I am projecting and promoting as something that needs to be organized and built across this country, is this national front, right. And the same time, we're building what we call the People's Senate, right, creating alternative systems of governing, because we know this government has not worked and will not work., has never worked in the best benefit of Black, Brown, Indigenous people. It will not and it has not. So we have to create alternative systems of governing for ourselves, divorcing ourselves from the system of white supremacy. So building the People's Senate, building FROLINAN are of the goals and objectives that I have outside of my job, right. The job that I have is a whole different, another ball of wax, right. Progressive, not revolutionary. That means a distinction, progressive, but not revolutionary. And so this progressive work pays my bills, of course, but it also allows me to be in the community and address the issues that's going on in the community of Rochester. So those are my goals and objectives, as the question asked, right, moving forward. Right? To build the People's Senate and build the Front for the Liberation of the New Afrikan Nation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=8385.0,8499.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  1:","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=8499.0,8499.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Okay, I have one more question for you. It's real corny, real cheesy, because I know we're running on time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=8499.0,12107.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nYeah, I got, I got three o'clock.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=12107.0,12111.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nWhat do you want current and future organizers to know? What do you want to impart on you know, you've been a-- I will say from, from my perspective, a giant in our movement.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=12111.0,12128.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nWell, I disagree, but go ahead.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=12128.0,12130.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nOkay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=12130.0,12130.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nOkay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=12130.0,12131.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nSo, well, I'll say this, I think you have contributed to shaping a lot of people's political understanding.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=12131.0,12141.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nWell, I've had keep in mind now I did nearly 50 years in prison. At one point in time I had over 500 books in the cell. All right, so I had the opportunity to study, okay. I think if I had gone to school for what I have studied, I probably have two PhDs by now, right. At least two. Okay, although I don't claim to be an academic, right in that sense, but everything I learned, I tried to impart right, either by writing essays, articles, or books, and also by my own practice, okay, organizing in these streets. All right, building cadres in these streets, okay. And as I just showed you today, the most recent paper that's sent out there, right, dealing with FROLINAN, a discussion paper, right. Because I want to have a discussion across the country, right, about FROLINAN, Front for the Liberation of the New Afrikan Nation and what that really means, right. It's important that we decolonize our thinking, alright. Because we've been a colonized-- we are traumatized, colonized people. All right, make that in quotes. We are a traumatized, colonized people, al lright. And the process for us to relieve ourselves of this trauma, we have to become decolonized, right. We have to return to an existence of being African. All right and that we are associating our lives and our existence to the continent. Okay, you go to any other people on this planet, right, and you ask them where they're from, they can give you a name and a place where they people from, right, their ancestry, they give them a name and a place. We cannot do that. All right. I'm telling you the extent of our trauma. Our enemies named us negro. Tell me, what's a negro? What's a negro? That's the extent of our trauma. What's a negro? Right. Now, they tell us that the Negro is a derivative word from Negra, which means black in Spanish. I'm not Spanish. I'm not Spanish. So then you're gonna give me a name that's based upon a Spanish word, naming a people. Okay. The trauma is we accepted the name given to us by our enemies, by those who enslaved us and we began to identify ourselves as Negroes. Where's Negro land? Right. Where this come from? It's a made up name that we identify ourselves. Who do you name? Who do people name? They name their pets! They name what they own! And they named us. Right. So if there's anything that I want to impart upon our people, we got to rename ourselves. We got to, we got to evolve our own identity. And the only identity that we can evolve based upon where we are here in this country is New Afrikans. Alright, it's New Afrikan. But that means that we have to go back into history to find out how we came to become these New Afrikans.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=12141.0,12342.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nAll right and I'm gonna share something I don't usually say out loud publicly, right. But let's understand this all right, when they brought us to this country, right, we was Mandingos, we were Fulas, was Fulani, we was Igbos, we were Mandinkas, we was Hausas, we were Fon, all the different nations and tribes. They brought us here, and we miscegenated. But not only did we miscegenate with other tribes off the continent. We micegenated with who? The Dutch, the English, the Portuguese, the Spanish. Who else did we miscegenated with? The Seminoles, the Cherokees, the Creek, my great grandma's Creek out of Alabama. Native American, right. That's a new genetic bloodline that's been created, right. You're not gonna find any place on the planet people have this, this kind of genetic bloodline, but us New Afrikans. We are the New Afrikans, okay. And so we accept this reality, this history, but we put in the context of our resistance, our struggle and resistance, okay. That's why we identify ourselves as New Afrikans. Cause we're decolonizing our thinking. We're not no longer a negro, we're not a colored person. We are of African descent, with this history of miscegenation. All right, so we have all the good as well as bad of all other nations and races, right. But there's no compilation of that amongst the people except for us. So we can speak to the world, all right. We speak to the world in Spanish. We speak the world in Portuguese. We speak to the earth in Dutch. We speak the world, we speak to the world in English, right. Brazil, Suriname Jamaica, Puerto Rico, right. Haiti, Ayiti, right. That's who we are, and building a New pan-Africanist reality, okay. And that's the story that we need to tell our young people, right. What impact that we've had on the planet. Now, we know we have impact on the planet between our music and our culture of that nature, right. But in terms of our politics and in controlling the resources and controlling our destiny, we have not yet impart that upon the world yet, and we're in the process of doing that now. Africa is freeing ourselves, and we have to free ourselves as well. Now that's the reason why white supremacy is in the height that it's in cause they see the rising of the Black race.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=12342.0,12529.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nLet me make this point also explicitly clear that needs to be said, that has not been said, the reason why they hate us, because they have the recessive gene. They know our history. They know that we have the dominant gene, and they know they are minority on this planet, right. And that's why they're so adamant, vehement, right, in their violence. They're a barbaric people. Their whole history is based upon barbarism, right. If they ain't fighting people of color, they gone be fighting each other. That's all they did in Europe. That's their history. Okay. And if you look at the the evolution of human existence, okay, they're the last to evolve. They're the last to evolve. We've been on this planet millions of years, right. 10,000 years, you had African people on this Western Hemisphere. We don't know this history. They ain't gonna teach it to us. That's why they're trying to erase us out of history now, removing our names and banning books, right. To preserve their existence, right. Because they know they are minority on this planet, right. And the world population of people of color, melanated people continues to expand and grow, populate this planet, all right. So in this instance, and understanding white supremacy, what it means, right. I mean, they trying to preserve the white race against all other races, right. Cause they know they have the recessive gene, right, and they know they are minority in the population of the planet. Okay. So that is the bottom line of what we're confronting, okay, in stark terms. So I wanted young people to know that, and I want them to grow in being proud, and I mean pride in the sense of self awareness, right. Not in terms of ego, okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=12529.0,12583.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nIf we come to that understanding, come to them terms, we will survive this, right. Because right now, the Europeans are on a genocidal bent, all right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=12583.0,12697.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nSo we should not be surprised when we see this country being complicit in genocide, the foundation of this country is based upon genocides and the enslavement of African people. The genocides of the Indigenous and enslavement of African people. That's the foundation of this country, okay. So, don't to be surprised if they engage in the same thing that they've been engaged in from day one. That's what they do. All right. Martin Luther King stated the United States is the greatest purveyor of violence on the planet, progenitor of violence on the planet. He was absolutely correct. The United States has been engaged in war since 1812, right. And when they, you know, actually, since 1776, you know, when they relieved themselves of the monarchy, okay. And now they're trying to champion this, this other character, this orange haired fool, right to be the next great white hope. Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=12697.0,12773.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nAnd so we have, we have, we have some direction, goals and objectives to achieve. One thing about New Afrika that I need to make this point especially clear, Black people, Brown people, Black people in this country, the majority still reside in the Black Belt South. Majority of Black people still reside in the Black Belt South. That is our ancestral homeland, right. South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana is our ancestral homeland. We've been in this country over 400 years, over four centuries. You tell us we don't have an ancestral homeland? Of course, we do. We just have to claim it. Claim it and name it, all right. And that's what we're doing. We're claiming the five territories, the five states, that's our ancestral homeland, and we named it New Afrika, The Republic of New Afrika.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=12773.0,12830.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nPeriod.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=12830.0,12832.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993/transcript/85677/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nPeriod.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295993#t=12832.0,5634.87499"}]}]},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 2 of 2 - Jalil Muntaqim Part Two.wav"]},"duration":3410.0,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/295/996/small/2.jpg?1768947395","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996/content/2/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-grassrootsthinking.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/295/996/original/Jalil%20Muntaqim%20Part%20Two.wav?1761334852","type":"Audio","format":"audio/wav","duration":3410.0,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996/transcript/85678","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Jalil Muntaqim - Part Two [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996/transcript/85678/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim Part Two - Oral History","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996#t=0.0,1.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996/transcript/85678/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nAll right, this is Dartricia Rollins, and I am interviewing Jalil Muntaquim, on our second day. Today is Friday, June 13th, 2025, we are in his office in Rochester, New York, and we're continuing our interview from yesterday and picking up on a question of you talking about your incredible mother, and in our conversation, you said that she had given birth to Panthers, and I know that she gave birth to you, yeah, and that she was the mother to you. But could you expand on what you mean by that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996#t=1.0,39.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996/transcript/85678/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nYeah. Because it's my mom [Billie Jo Bottom-Brown], and she stated it she gives birth to Panthers, and basically what she's saying is that she had come around and understanding my dedication, right, and my love for our people, and she began to accept my comrades' right, in that, in that understanding. And so she had a good relationship with Bilal Sunni Ali, and in fact, she went to his 70th birthday party, right, and danced with the people, you know, and just enjoyed herself with Baba Sunni Ali. Also. She-- Baba Sunni Ali and Sekou Odinga spent time with my mom's at her house. You know, she made dinner for them and, you know, and broke bread with them and discussed the issues. She also had Dhoruba bin Wahad spend a couple of weeks at her house when he was very ill and spent the night, spent those weeks at her house. So in this instance, she began to associate right her own understanding of her commitment to struggle, and then, therefore, self-named herself the mother of the Panthers, the mother of the Panthers. All right, and so it's something that I get a kick out of, and I really appreciate my mom and her evolution and the years that she had supported me for the nearly 50 years that I spent in prison, right. And as a result of that, you know, she began to really understand the extent of repression, right, and, and to what degree that the system in itself is based upon this aberrant philosophy of white supremacy, right. And the necessity for Black people, particularly, Black men, and especially Black men, because they, we have been noted to be an endangered species, all right, Black men are an endangered species on this planet, and it's due to the fact that we live in a world system that's based upon this aberrant idea of white supremacy, that white people are superior to any other people on the planet. And I made mention of that yesterday in our interview. So my mom began to understand that to a larger extent beyond the ideals of Martin Luther King [Jr.] and the NAACP [National Association for the Advancement of Colored People], and began to support the ideals and rhetoric of the more revolutionary determinants of our struggle in this country.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996#t=39.0,199.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996/transcript/85678/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nI-- you know, you talked about your mom supporting you throughout the entire time that you had been captured, and that's visible through, like I guess what I want to build on is how your family, how you stayed so connected to your family throughout your incarceration, but also your friends and comrades. And I kind of see your mom as also being like a facilitator of that, like by becoming a mother--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996#t=199.0,233.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996/transcript/85678/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nActually, you know what? I think the proper word would be a matron, matron, being a matron, you know, a self-adopted, self-named matron, you know, of the Party, and not necessarily much the Party, but my comrades, right. Let's be more personalized on that, but my comrades right and supporting them, and as much as she recognized the kind of relationship that I had with these men and women who are actually freedom fighters, right. And so she began to have the love of them, as I did, you know, and that love that we have for each other in this, in the struggle. So I think the better word is matron than the mother of Panthers. Okay, right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996#t=233.0,277.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996/transcript/85678/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nYeah, yeah. How, how did you retain your relationship with your comrades through many of y'all being incarcerated and not being able to always see each other, but being able to not only remain dedicated comrades while inside, but, also outside?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996#t=277.0,301.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996/transcript/85678/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim \n\nWell, first thing you have to understand, in terms of the Black Panther Party and Black Liberation Army, we were committed, right. We were committed to the ideas and the philosophy and the goals and objectives of the Black Panther Party's 10 Point platform and program, all right. And as a result of that, that unifies us, right. That created the foundation for us to understand one another and know what we are, who we are, right, as individuals, right, and then who we are as a collective, okay. And our collective understanding of each other is based upon the platform and the program, our experiences within the Black Panther Party. We understood that we were the ones who are putting our life and our liberty on the line, okay. We were in the trenches together, right, whether it was on the East Coast or on the West Coast, right. We know that we, we suffered losses together, right, in terms of losing some of our comrades, right, on both the East Coast, and West Coast, and Midwest, and in down South. And so, and for instance, as another example of the San Francisco Eight case as, as an example. Here you have 30 years later, you have eight guys in various parts of the country who was put together, who was, who was corralled right, like what ICE is doing today, with these, with the immigrants right, came and got us and brought us to San Francisco to stand trial. Soon as we saw each other in the in the holding cell, right, was like we'd seen each other yesterday. You know what I mean? Because we bringing back that history, bringing back that experience that we had with one another, you know, the, in the trenches, and so that's something we don't lose. And I think in many instances, very similar to those individuals who are caught up in imperialist wars, right. Whether in Vietnam, Iraq, etc, right. You develop a camaraderie, right, based upon that experience, and it's forever, right. Because in experiences that has such an indelible impression upon your being right, who you are as a person. And so that is part of it, right. And then the second part is this, we ain't stopped. We're still engaged in the struggle, okay. We still putting theory into practice, okay. And the belief in the love of our struggle. And so therefore, no matter if it was 10 years ago, 50 years ago, all right, we still in the movement. We still revolutionaries, and we think of ourselves as freedom fighters, okay, no matter our ideological maybe some ideological differences, right. But we understand we have a common enemy, all right? And therefore, we engage in our struggle in a way that we can try to be as successful as we possibly can based upon whatever contribution that we can give to our overall struggle, right. And so, and we know that we have to build collectively. We have to build collaboratively, right. We're not individuals, right. And then, not in the struggle, at least, right. We're not individuals. And so on the basis of that understanding and representative of the best interest of our people in this struggle, right, we know that we have to partnership with each other. We have to build together, right, as great as, as much as unity and uniformity as it as possible, right, in the course of building our struggle. So, that is the dynamics, right, that when I see a Jihad Abdulmumit, right, when I see an Ashanti Alston, when I see Tariq right, Sundiata, all right, I know that I'm looking at my brother, right. I know I'm looking at an individual who was putting their life right, in support of me, as I had, would have put my life in support of them, okay. And that is something that cannot be dismissed, right, as a casual association, right. No, it's not a casual association. This is lifelong relationships that we have as comrades, right. And we put that word, we emphasize the word comrades, right, because it's not a friendship. It is comradeship. Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996#t=301.0,562.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996/transcript/85678/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nI'm also going to pick back up on a thread yesterday where you spoke really saliently about the conditions of then and the conditions of now, and you said that you see the conditions as being equal to or even worse now. And one of the things that you noted, a couple things that you noted, I want to highlight one that we used to have communities, but then our communities became devastated, largely by drugs, gangs, and the culture that was created from that. As well as you noted about the culture that we have a culture of resistance, but not a movement. And you talked about how there were so many organizations back then, and a lot of, a lot of them, cadre organizations in particular. Could you, can you reflect on that and also think about, what it was like having so many organizations then, and how that, what was the spirit of that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996#t=562.0,640.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996/transcript/85678/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nOkay, first of all, let me, let me just reiterate the point that the Black Liberation Movement, or the national independence or New Afrikan independence movement, evolved out of the Civil Rights movement, right. So there's some degree of continuity. When Willie Ricks [Mukasa Dada] and Stokely Carmichael [Kwame Ture] in the march to Selma, stated that our struggle is for Black Power, that was transitional, right. It moved our struggle from Civil Rights movement into the Black Power movement right, evolving the Black Power Movement. Okay. And so that transition, in and of itself, created new organizations, more revolutionary organizations, more militant, more radical organizations, right, as part of that process, that transition. And so in as inasmuch as we had various organizations, one thing that we did know for certain is that we had a common enemy, right, across the board. And that enemy was white supremacy, capitalism, imperialism, right. And we had a common for most part, we had a common objective, right. As another example, the Black Panther Party was instrumental in trying to build an anti-fascist movement in this country, right. So we find now today, we need to do what Black Panther Party attempted to do back then, right, the, a national anti-fascist front, okay. And that's what we're trying to do with the People's Senate, organize that with the People's Senate, and also with FROLINAN [The Front for the Liberation of the New Afrikan Nation]. But what is important for us to understand is to what degree that the government devastated and seemed to essentially to demolish a militant resistance movement in this country, and they did it by drugs, they did it by promoting the gangs. So that's both on the physical level, right. Chemical warfare, right. Psychological warfare. Using corporate media, using music as a tool from which to create a loop in these young people's minds about anti-Black, essentially amounts to anti-Black narrative where gang violence, drugs, right, prostitution, right, became the thought, right. Where did they come from? Thought right, the kind of bastardization of our culture and denigrating our culture and into a capitalist consumerism, okay. And so that is the problem that we have confronting today, where our culture has to now been captured in this bubble of consumerism, of corporate consumerism, right. And now we look at the Jay Z’s and the Little Wayne's and these, these Beyoncé’s, right, as representatives of our culture. No, they're representative of the corporate interest, right, the culture of bastardization of our culture, right. But when we look at the Gil Scott Heron, when we look at what's the name? Something of the rock, sisters of the rock. I think that's the name.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996#t=640.0,825.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996/transcript/85678/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nSweet Honey in the Rock.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996#t=825.0,826.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996/transcript/85678/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nSweet Honey in the Rock, right? When we look at Sweet Honey in the Rock, when we look at Yusef Bey [Yasiin Bey], right, and his contributions on the, Talib Kewli and his contributions to a certain extent, we see that this music is more in tune with the needs of our people, rather than in tune with the needs of corporate interests. Alright. So they essentially destroyed, right or diminished to almost non-existence, a radical tradition, right, the Black Radical Tradition, right, that we are now resurrecting due to the socio-economic conditions that we find ourselves in today. So inasmuch as they were successful in the '70s and the '80s to destroy what had transitioned from Civil Rights to a Black Power Movement, right, now we're moving towards what I hope it will be the National Independence Movement, a New Afrikan Independence Movement. But we are defining exactly what our goals and objectives are in terms of resistance, white supremacy, capitalist/imperialism. Now the difficulty is that we have to resurrect, resurrect a new movement out of the ashes of what had been and what they what they did to destroy the movement back then. Okay. And that's going to be a very difficult process, right. And it's very difficult because we lost at least two generations. Two generations has been removed from the advent of the Black Power Movement, right. When I mean the movement, mass incarceration, right, drugs, and violence, okay. And creating that kind of chaos and dissension within the community makes it even that more difficult to resurrect the kind of unity and uniformity and understanding that we're all in this together, that we're all in the struggle together. So that is a process. We have to rebuild, right. We have a newspaper called \"Rebuild\" right for that purpose, right. And so that's the task before us. We have to rebuild the movement. We have to rebuild and within our people, right, the idea that we can, in fact, be independent, right, that we can, in fact, be sovereign, right, create sovereign-- another thing that people, we have sovereign nations in this, in this interest, corporate interest, corporate government, right, but particularly Indigenous, right. They are sovereign nations. Unfortunately, they're not able to function as a sovereign because of colonialism, neo-colonialism, right. But they do fact exist on paper as sovereigns, okay. How come we haven't? How come Black people in this country, New Afrikan people in this country, have not established themselves as a sovereign right? And that is the goal, okay. So it's not something that is unimaginable, right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996#t=826.0,1012.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996/transcript/85678/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nBecause we know they do exist, right. Sovereign nations exist. Native, Indigenous communities are, in fact, sovereign nations, and they cannot take that away from them, okay. Or at least they, they-- let me put it, at least on paper, on reality, they can't take it. Let me put it, take it away on paper, but they can't take away. But inasmuch as doing 365 treaties, and they broke every single one of them, of those treaties with the Indigenous, Indigenous family, our Indigenous relatives, we have a task to to change that, to change that, that type of warfare, right. We have to confront it, that type of warfare. And again, it's biological, it's chemical, right. And it's psychological, right. It's biological, it's chemical, psychological and physical, because they kill us, all right. You know, like, what was that? What, maybe eight months ago, they shot at one kid 60 times, right. They swiss cheesed this kid, right. It was not a question of murdering him. It was a question of how they gonna make a statement to the community, letting the community know this what we'll do to you, and we'll get away with it, right. It takes one bullet to kill a guy, so why 60? Unloading on one individual, a young guy, a teenager, right. But it is the kind of fear right that they want to promote right, in our community, and that's reason why the Black Liberation Army was so important, because it confronted that fear, right. It challenged the idea that we should be fearful of our enemies, right. So now today, right. We find that the economic situation is even worse than it was back in the '60s and the '70s, right? Because they have the dissolution of our communities, right, the gentrification of our communities, the splitting up of the families, right. So we have a lot of making up to do, right. And there's a lot of lessons to learn from the '50s and the '50s, '60s and the '70s, right. What was good and what was wrong, right? And with those lessons, we will, in fact, rebuild a New Afrikan Independence Movement and free the land, as el-Hajj Malik el-Shabazz instructed us, okay, that revolution is based upon land. Okay, there is no revolution, there's no substitute in the ideas of basis of securing land, okay. And that's our goal and objective, okay, what I said the other day is our national territory, our ancestral homeland, is the Black Belt South in this country. We've been in this country over 400 years, and we don't have an ancestral homeland? Okay. Or we cannot claim an ancestral homeland? Yes, we can. Okay, you just got to have the will to do so and be prepared to fight for it and defend it, right. And that's our goal and objective moving forward.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996#t=1012.0,1213.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996/transcript/85678/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nWhat are some of the lessons that we can learn?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996#t=1213.0,1216.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996/transcript/85678/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nThe necessity to be careful of infiltrators and provocateurs and instigators, all right. That you have to have a mass line. Okay. Not only you have a party line, but you also have the mass line. And you have an organization, if you have individuals in the organization, you have a party line, they gotta be adherent. You gotta have discipline, right. And another aspect is being too liberal, right. One of the areas that we're concerned is as Mao Zedong and his book, Combat Liberalism, right. His piece Combat Liberalism. We have been failing to combat liberalism, right. So we're allowing a lot of people to get away with crap they should not be getting away with, right. And it's and more often than not, it's disruptive. Okay, so moving forward, we have to be a lot more disciplined, right in terms of our goals and objectives and how we organize ourselves. The mass line has to be one that is adherent to the needs of the people, right. Direct needs to the people right. They have to inform us what their needs are, and then we have to organize ourselves and organize the people to try to address those needs, right. And that has to be our mass line, right for the most part. And as long as we adherent to the mass line and we have organizational discipline, then we are essentially creating barriers for our own security. Okay. We creating security for our organization and for the struggle that we're engaged in. But the greatest lesson that we have to really hone in on right and be subjectively or not objectively, but subjectively cautious of, is the discipline, all right, and have the capacity and have the will to discipline those individuals who are disruptive, right. We can ask them to, to leave, right. You got to go, you know, because you're not, you're not being disciplined. You're not being accountable, okay. You don't bring any ideas, right. And you're not functioning, right in the capacity that that moves our, that advances our struggle, that promotes us going forward, right. And if you're not doing that, then you're being disruptive, right. And you have to, you know, we got to figure out some kind of ways how to put you in a place where you less destructive or destructive to our to our struggle, to our organization, and our relationship that we have with the people. Okay. So that's, that's one of the primary, major lessons we have to deal with, right. How to identify disruptors, provocateurs, [and] infiltrators, right. And when we can do that, we can ensure greater security for our struggle going forward. So that's, that's the biggest lesson right there, right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996#t=1216.0,1379.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996/transcript/85678/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And for every organization, in my opinion, right, they should study COINTELPRO, right. I think that's, that's an important. Right, that we'll understand what the government did to disrupt and destroy the Black Panther, right and the movement of, the Black Power, movement of the '50s, '60s, and '70s, right. Because we don't learn those lessons, then they [are] going to repeat, right. Because one thing we are for certain is that they gon always engage in what? Divide and conquer, right. That's their go-to, that's their Machiavellian. Okay, divide and conquer. So we have to always look at the ways how to prevent that right, convict the division by creating greater unity and collaboration right, and ensure that they do not conquer us. So we have to have a-- as the Black Panther Party, we had survival programs pending revolution. Today is decolonization programs as part of the revolution. Okay. So there is a continuity in terms of our working relationship with the, with the community at large. So that's, that's what's also important, and those are lessons that we need to learn right. Second of all, or third of all, is that we are at war, right. We are at war, right. That has to be in the psyche of the nation, all right, that we have an enemy that is consistent and constant right, ensuring that we stay suppressed and oppressed, right. And so for us, not knowing that leaves us vulnerable, okay. And for long as we know that and adhere to that, then we can also have that personal security, as well as collective security, knowing that we are at war 24/7, 365, okay. Cause they ain't stopping in no way capacity-- just the idea, right, that after the Civil War, right the Ku Klux Klan continues to function today, right. They hadn't even been considered a terrorist organization to be annihilated by this government, right. And now the Ku Klux Klan is in the White House, right. They're controlling Congress. So when did the war end? It hasn't. Okay. New tactics, new developments in terms of tactical and strategic goals and objectives, and how they operate, right. We have not been comparable right in their determination to keep us oppressed in our determination to liberate ourselves. Okay. So we have to grow and evolve in a capacity where we are overwhelming them, right. And the only way we do that, we have to ensure that our narrative, our goals and objectives, is secured in the minds, and the hearts, right of our people, okay. And that's the goal, okay. Because once we get that, once that's done, game over, right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996#t=1379.0,1566.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996/transcript/85678/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And in my book, [\"On the] Three Phase Theory for National Independence,\" I lay it out, right, the processes from which we can do so, class struggle for national unity, right. And that's the process we're in today. We're in the process of a class struggle, okay, amongst our people, and for the purpose of creating national unity, and you will learn that that is the most difficult process that we have to engage. It's going to be the longest, most arduous process we have to engage in, because our people has been so traumatized over the centuries of traumatization, right, that they don't even have their own identity, right. So we have an identity crisis that we have to confront, right, as we have those who can consider themselves, quote, unquote Americans, huh? How you consider yourself American when America has never been in support of you personally or in Africa, [in] support of Africa? And if you identify yourself Africa or African, right, how can you then identify with America, right? And for those who had to split what I think W.E.B. Du Bois called double consciousness, right, because we identified with America and Africa. How you gonna do that when Africa has never been in support of-- when America has never been in support of Africa. So you saying within yourself and your own identity that you are in denial of half of yourself while you supporting the other half, right. The Americanism, as El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz called the United States. That philosophy is Americanism, okay. And so if you're supportive of Americanism, ain't no way in hell you can be supportive of Africa, okay. Because America is only wants to do with Africa is exploited for its natural resources and labor. So it's always been the intent of America, right. And these imperialist wars that we have fought in right, to our detriment, okay. And so it's important that we come to an understanding that we are at war, right. 24/7 365, right. And our goal and objective is to move from class struggle to national unity, okay. And the process we want you to do so, we have to challenge the national bourgeoisie, right. We have to challenge the neo-colonial mentality, right. The colonized mentality, okay, that is well ingrained within the psyche of Black people, African people, of African descent in the diaspora, particularly here in this corporate government that we call the United States. Okay, so for us, it is important that we learn that lesson, right. There is no appeasing this enemy, right. The only way that we're going to get-- for instance, example, that the fight for reparations, right. Continue to fight for it, continue to argue for it. But note, you're not going to have reparations till you can bring them to the negotiating table. And the only way you bring them to the negotiation, you gotta fight them tit for tat, right to where they see they ain't got no win right, and they gotta come to the negotiating table. Now you go get reparations. Okay. But you think that they're just going to give you reparations because you're asking for it. That's, that's a fantasy. Okay, that's a fantasy. Now, reparation issues is part of the revolutionary determination, right. There's no doubt about that, but it's, how do we get there, right. That we are forcing the enemy to repair. And that's another question I have in mind. How you gone ask the enemy to repair you, right. But that's what reparations mean, okay. And that is actually our goal and objective, as we gone talk about nationhood, right. It's in certainly, as I've written in my book, that in terms of reparations, we want military weapons. We want land, we want financial support, right. And want you to get the hell out of our way. Okay. And that's reparations. Far as I'm concerned, if you just get the hell out of the way, let us do what we got to do, right. That's reparations. Enough.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996#t=1566.0,1814.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996/transcript/85678/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nListen, Africa is more than wealthy, right. That we can develop relationships with Africa and build up our own economic institutions that we need to have here in this country, right. You say you want cobalt, you say you want coltan. You say you want these precious metals out of Africa. You gotta come through us, right. You gotta come through us to get that right, cause we have the connections to Africa. That's power, okay. And we're not thinking in that capacity in terms of our relationship of Pan-Africanism, in terms of our relationship with Africans in the diaspora, right. They have the natural resources. We say, well, we going to be your import and export to this country, and we're going to develop those institutions that anything that comes out of Africa comes through us, right. That's power. Okay, so that's the kind of vision we need to have in terms of building [a] nation, nationhood. And those are lessons learned.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996#t=1814.0,1878.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996/transcript/85678/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nHow will we impart onto our people that we're at war? When people think about war, they think about it as over there, you know, not here in the United States, not impacting them. And they see it in a very particular manifestation. You know, boots on the ground, guns, drones, bombs.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996#t=1878.0,1900.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996/transcript/85678/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nWe see that now. I'm seeing it right now, in LA right now, you're seeing it in other parts of this country, and it's not going to get any better anytime soon, not with this administration. So if you're not prepared for it, you're going to be a victim, right, rather than a survivor, right, or victorious in the course of, course of our struggle, right. So we have to come to that understanding. One thing that El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz also told us, right as for long as you keep your struggle within the parameters of civil rights, then the enemy can dictate the terms of your struggle. But when you move into an international community, and make it a question of human rights, it's outside the hands of your enemy, right. And so we have to really get to the point where we understand our struggle is a struggle for human rights, okay, and then link that to the international community and all bodies that deal with human rights issues in the international community, okay. We're not there yet, right. Again, it goes back to class struggle for national unity. We have to be in the process [of] decolonizing our thinking, right. For right now, we just domestic. And I use this term pejoratively, right. We're domestic animals of this, this, this enslaver, okay. I made mention the other day how they named us, right. And then we accepted the name that was given to us by our enemies. That shows the extent of our trauma and our colonized mentality. So when we began to identify and name ourselves, right in the course of struggling and building a foundation for sovereignty, right for nationhood, and then we understand the nature of the war right and how we have to engage for class struggle, for national unity, is important, but the next stage will be a national unity for self-government. We start creating the institutions in our community that are self-sufficient, right of self-serving. Self-serving means that we are in control of the resources and the capacity from which we can engage economic development in our community, right. That's self-governing. Okay. We're not being dependent upon our enemy for our survival and our existence, right. Developing self-government, right. And then when we create these kinds of institutions on the national level, right, whether you encounter places for us, like Rochester or Harlem or wherever the case, where we accumulate in different areas across the country, geographically across the country, and we control those resources. Now we gone bring these resources to the land, all right, the capacity that we're understanding and learning, we have learned how to govern ourselves right now, we can bring this to the land that would be self-government for national independence. So that's the three phases: class struggle for national unity, national unity for self-government, for national independence, right. So now we have the capacity to actually govern ourselves as a government, okay, having evolved out of the mentality of the colonized mentality into that of a free, liberated people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996#t=1900.0,2084.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996/transcript/85678/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nSo, say we gain this sovereignty, but we're still here within the United States, and still--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996#t=2084.0,2094.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996/transcript/85678/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nNo, no, because the United States has to be Balkanized.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996#t=2094.0,2097.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996/transcript/85678/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nOkay, that was gonna be my question [laughter].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996#t=2097.0,2101.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996/transcript/85678/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nI got the answers. Give me the questions.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996#t=2101.0,2104.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996/transcript/85678/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nGive me the answers [laughter].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996#t=2104.0,2105.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996/transcript/85678/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nI had 49 years of study, 49 years contemplating, okay. No, the country's gonna be balkanized, right, or just very, very similar to what they did to Yugoslavia and Croatia and Herzegovina and Serbia. Okay, breaking down nation-states. Right. This country cannot survive without us, cannot. Right. Only to the extent, whereas-- let me, let me modify that, right. This country needs us to be the menial and manual laborers, okay. To do what Trump said, the Black jobs, alright in this country, okay. Now, outside of that, there's no need for us, okay. And they're finding ways how to-- have no more need for us at all, and so that creates the conditions for us to remove ourselves from harm, as we have promoted right in terms of our struggle with the People's Senate, right, recognize that we have to remove ourselves from harm because they are on a genocidal path. White folks, like the government, are on the genocidal-- right wingers, white supremacists, on a genocidal path as it pertains to us, right. We have to know that, okay, and so therefore, building class struggle for national unity is essential, all right. Building a national unity for self-government is imperative, right. Moving towards national independence is subject to life and death, right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996#t=2105.0,2214.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996/transcript/85678/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nIt is required. It is demanding, right. We have no choice in this matter, because in my thinking, in my aspirations, is that Mexico will again reclaim Arizona, California, [and] Colorado, which were all part of the lands of Mexico. Okay, the Indigenous communities will re-establish their home territory, their homeland. White folks, as I had heard, and I don't know how true it is, but they have claimed that they're going to carve out the Northwest, Northwest Territory, right as in Oregon, Washington, Washington, Oregon, and the Dakotas, or parts of the Dakotas, Montana, and [inaudible], as their their homeland, okay. Or at least that's what they made some of the Aryan brotherhoods and stuff that have made those claims. Now, whether that'll happen or not, I don't think, I don't think so for them, okay. And one of the things that they fear is being integrated into a quote, unquote, Black world, or world of people of color. This is what they do not want, okay. But ultimately, I think that they are going to have to okay. But again, like I said, it's an arduous struggle, but this country's going to be re-balkanized, right. It can no longer exist as, quote, unquote, the United States, right. And you can see some of that happening with Texas as an example, who had always had a history of trying to become independent of the United States. Keep this in mind, the United States as an institution, right. It's based upon this idea of state rights, right, and federal law, okay. And when those two compete with one another, state rights competing against one of the national, on national interests, then we find that in many instances, they have to use force to keep the states in line. Okay. And it's going to come to a point in time where certain states, like California, like Texas, is going to make every effort they can to divorce themselves from, quote, unquote, the United States, right. So we have the United States corporate interest, right, and then we have the sovereignty of the of the state rights, or state rights right, based on the 14th Amendment, okay. In understanding how that function, how that operates. And fourth and sixth, I think Sixth Amendment as well okay, and how they function, and how they operate. So our goal and objective, naturally, is to free the land right. The Latinx community is to restore the sovereignty of the land that once was, right. Is for the Indigenous to restore, establish their territory and their homelands, right. And we'll see where it goes from there, okay, but the U.S. as an entity in and of itself. Its time is numbered, okay. And they know that, right. They know that they don't have the kind of capacity to extract wealth, right from other nation states across the country, across the world, and around the world, because many of those nation states have become aware, informed with the word that they do not like using woke, woke, right. Have become woke and has been identified with the problems in the nation countries are, and as a result of that, making the necessary changes to have more control of the resources of their country, and therefore diminishing the capacity from which the U.S. can extract resources on those countries and for profiteering. Okay, so that is, that is it, that is it, right, this country's gonna be balkanized. Right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996#t=2214.0,2478.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996/transcript/85678/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins \n\nSo I have a question about solidarity. Because yesterday, you named a number of organizations that did exist and in, and Black and New Afrikan people and African peoples fight for, for liberation and sovereignty, and you see this balkanization of this current country, and we had organizations, some that you named off were Black Panther Party, the Republic of New Afrika, the Brown Berets, Young Lords, SDS, Weather Underground, Patriot Party [Young Patriots]. Do we need something like that to also exist alongside?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996#t=2478.0,2522.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996/transcript/85678/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nOh, absolutely, absolutely, but let me, let me, let me try to quantify or qualify some of that, in terms of history, and what we've learned as the basis of history. During the Civil Rights Movement, there was five organizations that created the Civil Rights Movement right, and those five organizations was SNCC, Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, the Urban League right, CORE, Congress for Racial Equality. NAACP, National Association of Colored People, right, and SCIC, SCLC [Southern Christian Leadership Conference], right, Southern Leadership Conference, okay. Christian conference, okay. Those are the five organizations that created the Civil Rights Movement. It actually was the leadership of the Civil Rights Movement. Now let's look at those, right. What was SNCC? SNCC was the youth movement, okay, in the Civil Rights Movement. What was [the] NAACP? The NAACP was the legal arm of the movement. What was CORE and Urban League? They was the organizers in the cities across the country, right, and for the most part, right, and fundraising right, and building up the base for the Civil Rights Movement, CORE, and Urban League, right. And then you had what? SCLC, which is the face, right, the representative face of the Civil Rights Movement, right, with Dr. King, Jesse Jackson, Abernathy, Whitney Young, what's the other person's name? I can't remember right now. Okay. Abernathy, right. Ralph Abernathy, right. This was the face of the movement. This was the public face of the Civil Rights Movement. And so those are the lessons learned, and they worked in a coalition until they actually split, right. It was particularly with SNCC and then, and also when Dr. King began to rethink his philosophy and his ideas of nonviolence, peaceful resistance, okay. And then they began to fractionalize, and because of the way that the United States used its agents, right, and to create what? Divide and conquer within that movement. But the lessons learned, right. You gotta have a youth movement, right. You have to have a legal arm, right. You got to have organizers in cities across the country, right. And then you got to have a face representative, all right, of the movement, okay, a front, forward face of the movement. So people say he represents or they represent this, okay. And then we can see, from based upon that representation, how they are organized. And so for us, it's important for we begin the processes of building that kind of collaboration, right, a cooperation and unity amongst as many organizations we possibly can. That's why the People's Senate is so important, right, because that's what it intends to do, right. To build a, I want don't say, a united front, or at least a federation, okay, of organizations that function under the rubric that one U.S. imperialism has to die, okay. There are three, or five, issues that is required for a People's Senate. One is, you got to be anti-capitalist, you got to be anti-imperialist, you got to be anti-fascist, you got to be anti-sexism, all right, right, and you got to be pro liberation and independence of oppressed people. Okay, anti-sexism, anti-chauvinism, you know, misogyny, okay, all right. Those are the five criteria, right. And if you meet those five criteria, then you should be part of the People's Senate, alright. Those are foundational, alright. In our understanding of the work that we're doing, okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996#t=2522.0,2769.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996/transcript/85678/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim \n\nSo FROLINAN, right, trying to have all those who identify themselves as New Afrikans come under the umbrella of a single organization, right. You can work in the capacity that you're working in in your organization, right. But look, there has to be a national determinant, a national determination, right, that we all can agree upon, and for us that agreed upon it based upon the slogan, what, Free the Land, by any means necessary. Okay, so those are lessons learned from the '60s right that we have to rebuild, right, and adopt, adap,t and rebuild in this given time, these circumstances, at least, social, economic conditions, that we are confronting today. Well, those are less lessons learned, and that's the process, right, the balkanization of this country, right, rebuilding our movement, learning the lessons from the past, recognize that that the Civil Rights Movement was basically was a coalition, or coalition or united front operation, and their successes can be our successes for national liberation, and the independence of our people, right. We have to get organized in the capacity, in similar capacity, not the same, but similar capacity as they did during the Civil Rights Movement, because they were very successful in terms of challenging Jim Crow. Okay. They weren't fighting for independence. They was fighting for inclusion, right into the system. There's a reason why this dictator is trying to end DEI, right. Diversity, inclusion, equity, and inclusion, right. Because they don't want us included, right. They don't want to have equity. They don't want to have a diverse, they want white supremacy. That's what they want. So when we come to really internalize and understand what the goals and objectives are, then we know what we have to do. But at this point in time, the majority of our people still think that they can be being, they still adhering to the false notion of integration, right. They don't want us, right. Keep this in mind that 100 and, excuse me, 79, 79 million people voted for Trump. 79 million voted for Trump. The majority of white people, right, and the others were disillusioned, neo-colonial mentality, colonist mentality, Black, Brown, and Indigenous, right. Who bought into the idea that the system was going to work in to their best benefit. Now they see that's not true at all. Okay. So for that understanding, we need to really recalibrate, right our struggle, right to the real, realities that we are confronting today. But that's the course, that's the course that we have to make right. And again, with many organizations that exist today right, they have not, in no capacity, been risen to the level of the Civil Rights Movement, and that organization at that time, or what they was able to achieve in fighting Jim Crow, okay. So that's where we need to go. And those are lessons learned. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996#t=2769.0,2974.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996/transcript/85678/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins \n\nYeah. And, no, you answered it [laughter].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996#t=2974.0,2983.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996/transcript/85678/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim \n\nI told you, you got the questions. I got the answers.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996#t=2983.0,2985.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996/transcript/85678/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nI know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996#t=2985.0,2986.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996/transcript/85678/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nWell, okay, so--","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996#t=2986.0,2988.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996/transcript/85678/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nJust kidding [laughter].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996#t=2988.0,2991.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996/transcript/85678/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim \n\nI have some answers, and believe me, if I don't know, I will say that I don't know. We gotta go research. But I got no problem telling you what I don't know, but what I do know, I'm gone tell you I know it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996#t=2991.0,3005.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996/transcript/85678/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dartricia Rollins  \n\nSo, present day, right now in LA, we have 13 minutes. We have the struggle right now around immigration, and a lot of Black people are saying that this is not a struggle that you know that is pertinent to them. There's a whole lot of argument that we have about that, but the question is about solidarity with non-Black people. How does that exist within this, within, within our fight for our own liberation?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996#t=3005.0,3049.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996/transcript/85678/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim \n\nOkay, there's two parts to that question, or a two-part answer to that question.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996#t=3049.0,3053.0"},{"id":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996/transcript/85678/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jalil Muntaqim  \n\nDuring the '70s, all right, there was a big contradiction between the Black Panther Party, Black Liberation Army, and with SDS [Students for a Democratic Society] and the Weather Underground, right, and some of the white revolutionary radicals during that period of time, right. And the contradiction was that essentially based upon the foundation, based on the foundation of white skin privilege, right, where they believed that they knew best what needs to happen for us, right, and, or for the struggle overall, right. And, and they had resources right, that we could not we didn't have to tap into, we could not tap into right, because of the fact that they're white and white skin privilege, right. But we was in solidarity, right on a number of things, right. Being anti-imperialist, being anti-capitalist, okay, being anti-racism. So those are the basis of our solidarity, right. The principles of the basis of our solidarity now is the question of, how do we promote that? How do we implement that? How do we manifest that solidarity? Right. And one thing we certain, in my thinking, that our struggle for the most part, has to be Black-led, alright. It has to be Black-led, alright. We are the ones who are most oppressed, most disenfranchised, most suffering the conditions of white supremacy. Right. So white people cannot tell us how we have to liberate ourselves, okay. Nor can an Indigenous, nor can the Latinx, can tell Black people how we liberate ourselves. What we can do is cooperate with one another to liberate ourselves collectively, right. But that also means this, we have to know what our goals and objectives are. We have to be certain, in Islam called yaqeen, right, gotta be certain what our goals and objectives are, okay. Now on the basis of that understanding, now we can build solidarity, okay. Now we can build working relationships. I know what your objectives are. I know how they align with my objectives. Then we can work together. Okay. Unfortunately for us, at this point in time, we have not created certainty in terms of what our objectives are, all right. So therefore our, our capacity to engage in principled solidarity with other peoples and organizations is tenuous, right. It is not fully formulated, all right, in an understanding, this is what our goals are, okay, and this is how you can help me, right. And this is how I can help you, okay. My thinking is that for white folks who are engaged, that they want a socialist America, right, at least that's what my hopes are. A Socialist America. Right now, I'm not certain about that, okay. They might want a little bit more liberal, more liberal America, a little bit more less violent America, you know, but I don't know if they want to socialist America. So that has to be really defined across the board. Latinx, right. Is their goal just to become citizens, right? Particularly those who come from out of the country, right. Latinx, and also Asians and etc, other people of color is their goal and objective to become citizens and become holist, wholly engaged in this system they call it the United States? Right. Has not been defined yet and needs to be defined, right. Black people, our goal, objective is a socialist America, or national liberation, independence of African people, New Afrikan people, right. Has not been certain. It's not yet yaqeen. We have not established for certainty what our goals and objectives are. So therefore, our capacity to engage in solidarity, right. Is going to always be, until sometime we have certainty, right. Will always be tenuous. It'll always be issue-oriented, all right, consequential, okay. And not necessarily one that's based upon a fabric of real solidarity, national unity, goals and objectives to achieve. That you know what you got to do? I know what I got to do. You know what we collaborate on and move forward, right. And again, leading back to that's why we building the People's Senate, okay? That's why we have to build FROLINAN, okay. Because in those instances, there's some degrees of certainty what our intent is, right, and understanding that we are at war, right, that they are genocidal, right, and that we need to remove ourselves from harm and trauma, okay. Now, if they can help us removing ourselves from harm and trauma, right, then that's kind of solidarity that I need to have with others, okay. Where our interest is collective, okay, and they know that our freedom supports their freedom because their freedom supports our freedom. We're not there yet, but that's where we need to go, and those should be the lessons learned from how they have destroyed the movements of the past. Okay. kay, oh, yes, yeah, we got 10 minutes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://grassrootsthinking.aviaryplatform.com/collections/3503/collection_resources/162519/file/295996#t=3053.0,3410.0"}]}]}]}